IT'S ALWAYS WORKED FOR ME.

My granddad was OLDDDDDDDDDDDDD SCHOOLLLLLLLLL. 98 YEARS OF OLD SCHOOL.
And knew more about bucks or deer in general by useing just plain comon sence. And he really was'nt a deer hunter. But let the talk turn to gobblers useing comon sense again knew more than any other 10 men I knew but together. AND HIS KILLS IN 92 SPRINGS PROVED IT.
When I was in my late teens I'd been deer hunting since I was 8 or 9. I arrowed my first 8 point I told him I was going to be a total buck hunter. He told me right away then you can't hunt the ways you've seen others do. They've only been taught by older ones that all they want to do is kill a deer. Was'nt manty horn hunters back then.
So I gave it some thought and right away I figgered out why people do'nt see bucks. Unless ther pushed to them. PRESSURE
Don't pressure bucks when you don't need to. So for the last 30 plus years I only did my scouting post season. JAN to MARCH. then my mine wanders to gobblers. For a couple months.
After our season ends in JAN. I start doing 2 things.
(1) I start buting my feet on the ground. Everything you need to know is there form the fall.
(2) I run camer's off food biles. Not brag to my buddys about all the pic's I get of those mature bucks. But just to see what bucks made it through the season.
It dos'nt alot to add the pic's. of the bucks to there rub lines. Bucks only rub where they feel safe. The rubs tell you his size in general if he's got stickers. Where he's beded at to where his food scorces are. I grantee you 100% theres a rub line for every buck between his bed and his food and food means doe's durning the pre-rut and rut and well into the post rut.
ONE THING i REALLY LOOK FOR IT OLD RUBS FROM PAST YEARS. This tells you one inporant thing. It's differently a trail that runs between a bedding area and a food scorce either by different bucks or the same one from a few different years.
Those big sign post rubs you see tells you when the rut starts and where he's been and going. They tell you what finger ridges he's going up in the mornings to his bed. And which ones he's comeing down in the evening. Or what thickets,wood lots he's useing.
If he lives through the season nothing much changes in the mountains. It will some what in farm land with food scorce changes but it nothing sceriouly changes he' won't either.
I keep records of the famrs I hunt and whats planted where each year. What he's did this year at what time he'll do the same next season when it rolls around. Where ever he's at.

I set up all my sites in the winter. I trim any limbs,build blinds of some sorts always noteing the wind, my aproch and also when I leave what routes will keep me from being detected. When I'm satified. I leave there and don't go back to the next season when the time and winds right to hunt that site. I know if not him another buck will be useing that same trail.( CHOISE BEDDING AREAS DON'T GO OVER LOOKED MY MATURE BUCKS.)
When all the stars fall into place and the winds right I go to a site thats all I do. I WALK IN HUNT AND WALK OUT. Never walk around unless it's to go get my buck. I don't go walking around scouting.
I totally relie to my winter scouting and set up. If your hunting mature bucks it only take them to find you out on time.
IF JUST GOT 100 TIMES HARDER TO KILL HIM. Sure it can happen but your odds just went way way down. And if you want to be conscend year in year out to have to tip all the odds you can in your favor and keep them there..
But like my grandad told me people hunt the way they were taught and right away I they start second guessing their scouting. First thing they do is go scout (walk around) as soon as they get done hunting.

A lot of truth here....

A crucial mistake a lot of guys make is shoot the first doe or small buck that shows up. Then they wonder why they never see or kill big deer. Fact is, a lof of times the big one won't be the first deer you see, even the first buck.

Thats kinda true in some ways. I'm saying these things as in a general way.

Unless the rut's kicking mature bucks don't be with doe's. Sure you see those ytoungsters and 2 1/2's (teenagers) If the ruts happening that mature buck will be stuck on her step for step. If a mature buck get in the open he'll own'ly be there because of 2 things a hot doe. And you can bet he'll be staying right with that doe.
Or someone pushed him out to you.
As a general rule mature bucks don't follow young bucks around.

There's 2 things why people don't even see much less kill big bucks (mature).
(1) They do'nt hunt where their at. I do'nt just mean their not there period. I've never hunted on a PL,NF,FARMS OR WHERE EVER. THEIR THERE.
THERE MAY NOT BE MANY BUT THERE'S AWAYS A FEW THERE.
People just DON'T hunt in THE PLACES WHERE their at even though their in the area.
(2) WHEN THEY ARE FOUND, HUNTERS DO'NT KNOW HOW TO TOTALLY HUNT THE WIND. AND THEIR QUICKLY FOUND OUT. SOMEONES WHERE THEIR NOT USELLY AT.
Buck quickly change their patterns or they quickly go noc-turnal. DEPENING ON THE BUCK.

I think deer do a lot of different things in different areas. We usually have two pretty intense ruts, but they're both at almost the end of our season. I've seen mature bucks traveling with smaller bucks on a number of occasions - and I was really more getting at a scenario where you may have a hot doe pass with a small buck trailing and you have somebody shoot the doe and/or small buck and never know there was something better following. It can play out a lot of different ways. Also seen it with major scrapes where you'll have many bucks check the scrape and the big one may or may not be the first to show up. All of that said our population, herd structure, and ruts are different from what a lot of ya'll are dealing with.

I 100% agree with your last statement here in the South our rut seems to be more nocturnal. It could be from a lot of factors such as pressure (longggggg run seasons 3mths), weather, & buck to doe ratios. Because of this I don't put much faith in rut hunting, matter of fact seems to be my worse time of year. By the rut here the deer have been heavily pressured & food sources I like to hunt are drying up.

That's funny, the second rut is my favorite time to hunt. It usually coincides with the last week of the season and most of the guys that hunt my area are burnt out and ready to hang it up. I like to take off the last week if I can and hunt hard. I've got one particular day that I've probably killed 10 bucks on.

I have to say if you see a young 1 1/2 ,2 1/2 theys be taging along behind that mature buck thats following a hot doe.
Or sometimes that 1 1/2 you see along with a doe and mature buck following, It's likely her fawn from last year.
Or ofcorse if a mature bucks following doe in heat it will atract any bucks that come across her.
But other than a hot doe or bachuor groups in the summer and even then bucks tent to stay with that age group.
You'll never seen younger bucks with a mature buck. I seen DOZZENS AND DOZZENS of mature bucks in the evenings get up and come out of their bedding area. Not one time have I seen a younger buck bedded with him or follow him.

I don't hunt scrapes (1) use'lly by the time you find one (SCRAPE) it's dead the bucks likely already with a doe.
Mature bucks very ,very seldom make scrapes. Mature bucks know how the mateing thing go's. They know where the doe's are and the doe's know where he's at.
Those scrapes where you see mutiable bucks useing ,are made and maintained by younger bucks 1 1/2 TO 3 1/2 thats out of the breeding.
I never seen a mature buck 4 1/2 to 6 1/2 or older work a scrape. Between doe's if he dose check a scrape it will from 50 ,60 yards down wind. Back in the late 80's early 90's I put cameras on dozzens of scrapes got 100's of pic's. Let me add I'd say 90% of those were in the dark. Out of 100's of pic's. for 5 or 6 years .only 6 bucks 4 1/2 or older and only one of those showed up in the day light.
I can hear people talking already WELL I DID I KILLED A MATURE BUCK LIKE THAT OFF A SCRAPE. and it dose happen but not nearly enough for me to wast my hunting time. I do'nt hunt on maybes.
But if all you want is to kill a buck go for it. But even then the windows not open up for long when it comes to scrape.

My favor time to hunt is the pre-rut put like hunting the rut betqeen 2 doe bedding areas. I also love the preut Those mature bucks are outy and about looking for those last doe's. Add some calling it's a gbreat time to be in the woods. Mostttttttttttttttttttt of the time you'll be alone.

We just have completely different situations where we hunt. I've personally had a hot doe come by with a spike right on her tail followed 5 minutes later by a 4pt and then a 150 class 10pt which I killed. I'm not the only one this happens to around here. I think it's just a herd density/pressure/herd structure thing. I've also jumped different age class bucks bedded together in December. In fact, I had a bad year one year and on the second to last day of the season I was walking to my stand and jumped a small 4pt and when I shot him a big buck jumped up that had been bedded with him. That was on Jan. 18th if I remember right which is usually between peak rut cycles or right when it starts to heat up again. It might be strange for your area, but not that uncommon in my area.

apex
Those bucks were all following the hot doe are just picking up the tail as she moves along. I've shot dozzens of bucks together chaceing doe's. or after letting small bucks go by.
Thats not at all what I'm saying.

Deer live and react through instint. They all do the same no matter the siturations or where your at. TERRAIN,WIND,COVER,FOOD, DOE'S AND PRESSURE.
I'VE HUNTED (KILLED)BUCKS IN 11 STATES not 1 with a outfitter all self hunted.. THE SOONER YOU LEARN TO HUNT ALL BUCKS THIS WAY. YOUR GIVEING THEM WAY MORE CREIT THAN THEIR DUE.

No matter where your at if you jumped younger bucks together with mature bucks it's because there beded THERE BECUASE of a hot doe or a doe thats getting ready to come in.
THE YOUNGER BUCK IS HER YEARLIING (1 1/2'S) FROM LAST YEAR TAGING ALONG WITH HER AND THE OLDER(MATURE) BUCK.
Hunters do this all the time they see a yearling are think right away the ruts starting she aready has a buck following her. It's just not so.

JUST BECAUSE YOU WERE BETWEEN THE peak breeding cyles. Dos'nt mean there wasn't there was'nt a HOT doe close by. LIKE IT SAID EARLYER THESE WERE WRITEN AS A GENERAL RULE. That one time you jumped a young and old buck together was just once. How many times have you jumped just a single mature buck along. How many times have you jumped young bucks along or with bucks the same age.

LIKE I SAID IF A HOT DOE'S NOT INVOLED OLDER MATURE BUCKS WON'T LET YOURGER BUCKS BED WITH THEM.

I BET YOU AND GIVE YOU BIG ODDS I'M RIGHT.

NOT TRYING TO PISS YOU OFF OR TELL YOU HOW TO HUNT WHERE YOUR AT JUST THE WAY IT IS.

These aren't one time observations, I'm just citing a specific instance. You've got your opinion and I've got mine...let's just agree to disagree.

Yep, I was waiting to see how this one turned out. Glad it's all good. This sums it up nicely, as I try to keep the mood light. This is a great song, by the way.